#FeministSF Chat with Nicola Griffith 4/29/2012

What follows is a transcript from a recent Twitter chat, in which I interview award-winning author Nicola Griffith, and some fairly lucid points about gender, publishing and utopia (whee!) are made. The nature of captures from Twitter is tricky; sometimes tweets appear out of sequence or disappear. Also, the timestamps are wrong, but I’m not energetic enough to edit them all. I appreciate your patience.

#FeministSF chat takes place most Sundays at 2:00 PM EST/11:00 AM PST.


@traciewelser: Pre-reading for today’s #feministSF chat at 14:00 EST with @nicolaz: http://t.co/SJjleER9

@traciewelser: 20 minutes until #feministSF chat with @nicolaz,bring questions!

@Rudibrarian: oh no! I can’t go to the grocery store now, @nicolaz is being interviewed on #FeministSFin 15 minutes

@nicolaz: @Rudibrarian Yeah, but I’ll be chatting for a whole hour…n #feministsf

@thefuturefire: If I may sneak this in before we start, there’re some great #FeministSF titles among those up for grabs at http://t.co/V3w2NSO5

@nicolaz: RT @thefuturefire: before we start, therere some great #FeministSF titles among those up for grabs at http://t.co/BItlNzMz #feministsf

@traciewelser: Good day, folks! Who’s tuning in to #feministSFchat today?

@traciewelser: @nicolaz well, that’s good! πŸ™‚ welcome #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz thanks you for participating today πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: I’ll be there! #FeministSF

@nicolaz: Thank you. Happy to be here. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @Rudibrarian good day to you! #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: @nicolaz that’s the point, right? :)n #FeministSF

@traciewelser: @Rudibrarian @nicolaz so, this chat generally runs about an hour, but folks are free to keep chatting after we wind down. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @thefuturefire hey, there! πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz I’ll begin with a question, but others folks are free to chime in. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz I’d like to start by just asking a general question… #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz in other interviews, you’ve said you want to show women “w/ an entire spectrum of human behavior.” care to elaborate? #feministsf

@nicolaz: …we’re evil and good, generous and mean, strong and weak, communists and socialists… #feministsf

@nicolaz: Women are human. Everything a human can do (excepting certain obvious biological functions) a woman can do. And has done. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz you said that Slow River in particular was a hard sell b/c publishers/critics felt men were “absent.” #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: @nicolaz such a self-evident statement, but the painful truth is that it still needs to be said…n #FeministSF

@traciewelser: @nicolaz and this absence was somehow unfathomable or detrimental #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@Rudibrarian Yep πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser It was wild. Reviewers complained of ‘all women’, completely ignoring the men in the novel… #feministsf

@Justdar826: @traciewelser @nicolaz and yet an author would never be told a book was a hard sell because women were absent #feministsf

@rachelswirsky: @nicolaz Do you feel pressure to change your work so that it’s more acceptable to male publishers/editors? #feministsf

@nicolaz: …It was a reflection of that truism, that when a population (even characs) is >30% women, most perceive a majority of women. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@rachelswirsky No. It’s always been easy to sell my books. The hard part is writing them πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@Justdar826 I think we might be approaching that place. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz I know Whileaway and Wanderground were big early influences on your work: how did Ammonite depart from that, for you? #feministsf

@rachelswirsky: @nicolaz I actually love the energy of your short fiction. That’s not a question just a comment. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@rachelswirsky Even AMMONITE had multiple offers. The women-only thing didn’t phase any publishers… #feministsf

@nicolaz: …reviewers on the other hand: oof! #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: @nicolaz way back, I felt FemSFF disc list launched/supported FemSFF writers. Have you noticed any change since it’s demise? #feministsf

@rachelswirsky: @nicolaz I think Gwyneth Jones wrote recently about feeling marginalized as a feminist SF writer; you don’t feel the same? #feministsf

@ls_johnson: looks i can sneak a peek at the #feministsfchat . . .

@traciewelser: come on in! RT @ls_johnson: looks i can sneak a peek at the #feministsfchat . . .

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser The biggest difference bet. me & Russ, I think, is that I didn’t believe the arrival of men would fuck it all up. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz ahhh /nodding #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@rachelswirsky By other writers, early on? Oh, yep. By publishers and readers? No. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz more of a device, in the time those were written, wouldn’t you agree? one that Left Hand of Darkness doesn’t rely on. #feministsf

@nicolaz: But it’s going to be interesting to see what happens when my latest novel, HILD, is published next year. #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: @nicolaz (so excited to read HILD!! #feministsf)

@thefuturefire: @nicolaz @rachelswirsky I’d have thought Ammonite was less controversial in that regard because it’s explicitly #WorldWithoutMen #FeministSF

@nicolaz: .@rachelswirsky Yeah. But I think the US is pretty different to the UK. #feministsf

@Wyld_Dandelyon: @nicolaz So, tell us why Hild will be interesting?n #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz I’m interested b/c of the public way you’ve conducted your process for Hild. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser Yes, but LHD was a more intellectual exploration. Russ’s work was visceral and personal (and so very, very smart) #feministsf

@ls_johnson: @nicolaz @rachelswirsky have those writers become more accepting, then? or is it just that the genre become more inclusive? #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz Hild feels like a breathing person already, just from your tweets about her! #feministsf

@rachelswirsky: @nicolaz Interesting–I hear complaints about there being very few female british SF writers getting high profile attn? #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@thefuturefire But reviewers’ brains nearly exploded at a whole novel that’s full of adventure and joy but no boys πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@nicolaz: …they felt left out. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz oh, Russ is more visceral, certainly. Gearhardt perhaps more so. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@ls_johnson Yes. The f/sf writing world has grown considerably in the nearly 20 yrs since AMMONITE was published. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz pardon me, make that Gearhart. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@rachelswirsky That’s true. Just take a look at Gollancz’s SF Masterworks list… #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser I loved Gearhart 30 yrs ago. Now I think it’s essentialist nonsense. #feministsf

@thefuturefire: @nicolaz Heh. (Might have been easier to deal with “oh noes, what they going to do without men!” than complaints re Slow RiverÒ€¦) #FeministSF

@rachelswirsky: @nicolaz Do you see yourself as getting exceptional treatment? Or is it an issue of who’s writing? #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@Wyld_Dandelyon Hild changed the world. You could argue (but not in 140 characs) that she is pivotal to democracy as we know it #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz I’ve had a similar, evolving sort of reaction to Gearhart… #feministSF

@Justdar826: @nicolaz #feministsf. Well it’s certainly true for much of my book buying habits

@traciewelser: @nicolaz …but her images of magical technologies like flying women and houses made of books stay with me. #feministSF

@nicolaz: .@rachelswirsky Exceptional treatment? No, I don’t think so. I just was always moving ahead, not dwelling on injustices. #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: @traciewelser absolutely! those are the pieces that have stayed, w/me too after the politics stopped feeling as powerful to me #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser You know, I don’t remember *that* stuff at all πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: @traciewelser actually, I think Gearhart was one of my first exposures to radical consensus democracy. That’s stuck w/me too #feministsf

@Justdar826: @nicolaz #feministsfhurray for more HILD

@thefuturefire: @nicolaz Do you set out to make your books a “safe space” for lesbian characters and/or readers? #FeministSF

@Wyld_Dandelyon: It always fascinates me that different people reading the same book or watching the same show remember totally different things. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@Wyld_Dandelyon Hild begins as a 3 yr-old, her father murdered in exile, homeless, in a time of warlords and kings… #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: @nicolaz which part of next year will we see HILD? beginning, maybe? #feministsf

@traciewelser: @Rudibrarian I think that’s the utopian core of Wanderground, whereas people focus on the depiction of men/separatism. #feministsf

@nicolaz: …when might is right. Yet she dies at 66 as counsellor to kings, teacher of bishops, leader of the folk… #feministsf

@nicolaz: …How did she manage that? That’s what the book’s about. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@Rudibrarian Hild is tentatively scheduled for autumn 2013. #feministsf

@patriciasbowne: Sounds great! I am always looking for #feministsfthat depicts female success.

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser Yes. The joy of that stuff was huge for me. But then the horrible dawning of understanding of… #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@patriciasbowne Hild’s life is a rollercoaster ride–love, hate, war, deprivation, joy, lust, gold… But it ends well πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@nicolaz: The biggest challenge of writing HILD was to not contravene what was known to be known about gender roles… #feministsf

@traciewelser: @Rudibrarian I think you’d enjoy The Dispossessed and The Fifth Sacred Thing, then. πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@nicolaz: …and yet make it exciting, Big World Big Life story. #feministsf

@nicolaz: The worldbuilding for HILD was very like sf. #feministsf

@patriciasbowne: @nicolaz most interesting lives are rollercoasters. The trick of making it end well is what interests me most! #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz SF, with maps! #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: @traciewelser yes, I did enjoy those! I actually taught a seminar on religion in Fem utopian fiction in mid 90s, those & others #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz do you see Hild as a “genre switch” for you, from SF/crime/historical? #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: @nicolaz Will HILD’s life be in just one book? Or is this a series? #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@patriciasbowne The trick, for me, is to make each part end well! #feministsf

@traciewelser: @Rudibrarian oooh, we need to talk πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser Lots and lots of luverly maps! #feministsf

@patriciasbowne: @nicolaz do you mean each part of the book? #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser No. I use genre like a vehicle: the right vehicle for the right story terrain. I’ve always thought of myself… #feministsf

@nicolaz: …as a ‘novelist’. Genre is just a tool. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@Rudibrarian The book that will be out next year ends with her marriage at age 19. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz a tool that has limitations and practical value in publishing, no? #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: @nicolaz sounds like we’ll get many books out of the life of HILD! fantastic! #feministsf

@nicolaz: Don’t get me wrong, I *love* genre–sf, crime, historical, etc.–but I’m not citizen of any of them. #feministsf

@patriciasbowne: @nicolaz That’s a really liberating concept. Yet to do it requires being good in lots of genres! #feministsf

@Justdar826: @Rudibrarian @traciewelser @nicolaz #feministsfI think Wanderground was my 1st exposure to female the idea of a female utopia.

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser All tools have limitations. That’s why we use toolboxes… #feministsf

@nicolaz: …We need lots of tools. One of the most impt? Relationship: with community, publishers, critics, etc. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@Justdar826 Mine too. It blew me away. Part of what got me started. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@Rudibrarian Hild’s is a big, big story πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz earlier, @thefuturefire asked about creating safe space for lesbians characters and readers in your work. thoughts? #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: @nicolaz Fascinating way to see writing. D you think that’s new? Part of hypeconnected web? Or something that has always been? #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser Ooops. Missed that one. Yes. In my work women are just people who love other people… #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@Rudibrarian IMO it’s always been that way. It’s just easier now. We don’t all have to live in NYC. #feministsf

@nicolaz: So, hmmn, I guess you could say (w/regard to lesbianism) all my work is utopian πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz I just read “It Takes Two” last night, and I enjoyed the normal (and, um, explicit) depictions of sexuality. #feministSF

@Justdar826: @nicolaz #feministsfpart of what got you started? reason enough to alway treasure that book then

@thefuturefire: @nicolaz it occured to me that there’s no homophobic abuse or suspicion or even surprise in those of your books that I’ve read #FeministSF

@outeralliance: Great #feministSF interview with @nicolazhappening right now!

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser That was a blast to write! Did you see: http://t.co/defmaGyL #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: @thefuturefire I’m a little fuzzy ont he start of slow river — was her lesbianism part of the parental abuse? can’t recall #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@Justdar826 I wrote an essay about that: http://t.co/oDxa112L #feministsf

@thefuturefire: @nicolaz which is great for characters+story because it’s about real people, good+bad, without having to be about queer struggle #FeministSF

@nicolaz: .@thefuturefire No. None. #feministsf

@thefuturefire: @nicolaz and it’s also good for readers, because there’s a whole world with one less potential trigger to worry about #FeministSF

@nicolaz: .@Rudibrarian Nope. Lore’s lesbianism had nothing to do with anything. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@outeralliance I’m having a blast! #feministsf

@Justdar826: @nicolaz and I’ve just bookmarked it to read later. Thx #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz hee, yes. I share your feelings there. sad for people who think mind-blowing sex only happens in fiction. #feministSF#doingitwrong

@nicolaz: .@thefuturefire Yes. But they’re not wish-fulfillment fiction because there’s plenty of other ‘problems’ to deal with. #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: note to self: It’s time to re-read Slow River! Can;t be being fuzzy about one of all time favorite books! #feministsf

@thefuturefire: @Rudibrarian “part of” in what sense? A result of–no, I’m pretty sure not. The abuse itself–abuse Ò‰  orientation, it’s violence #FeministSF

@nicolaz: .@Rudibrarian Well, let me know how the reread goes. I’m always intensely curious about reader response (good and bad). #feministsf

@thefuturefire: @nicolaz Yes absolutely! Really really bad things happen to some people who happen to be queer, but not because they’re queer. #FeministSF

@nicolaz: .@thefuturefire Oh, the fucking ‘queer struggle’. If I never read any more of that I’ll be happy. #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: @nicolaz will do! hmm, is Slow River out on audio? I have a looong drive scheduled next month…. #feministsf

@patriciasbowne: RT @nicolaz: .@thefuturefire Oh, the fucking ‘queer struggle’. If I never read any more of that I’ll be happy. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @thefuturefire @nicolaz but texts that treat queer as normative are radical for that very reason, IMO. #feministSF

@nicolaz: .@thefuturefire But that’s because I left ‘struggle’ behind a long time ago. Others aren’t so luck & need outside validation. #feministsf

@CherylMorgan: Dropping in from Zagreb to note that Croatian fandom is run by women. #feministsf

@Dave_Fouchey: @nicolaz is it utopian or just hopeful? #feministsfLove is Emotion there should be equality across the whole continuum of adult sexuality

@Justdar826: @nicolaz @outeralliance great interview, although I kinda wish we could hear your voice after I heard this http://t.co/ZyXHajG8 #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@Rudibrarian No, SR isn’t out in audio, but Kindle will do a text-to-speech thing. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@CherylMorgan Yay! Go Croatian fandom! #feministsf

@thefuturefire: @traciewelser @nicolaz yes, that’s precisely my point. (In fact I think I said that in a comment on your last utopia post πŸ™‚ ) #FeministSF

@nicolaz: .@Dave_Fouchey Utopia is all about hope. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@thefuturefire You have my promise: that will never change. #feministsf

@kelleyeskridge: Don’t miss currently-in-progress #feministsfchat with the fabulous Nicola Griffith! Great and wide-ranging conversation.

@nicolaz: If I’ve missed anyone’s question, just ask it again. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz @Dave_Fouchey I love that utopian thinking has come up so many times in this chat. Just sayin.’ #feministSF

@nicolaz: .@Justdar826 When HILD comes out I’d love to do Skype bookgroup chats. #feministsf

@CherylMorgan: RT @kelleyeskridge: Don’t miss currently-in-progress #feministsfchat with the fabulous Nicola Griffith! Great and wide-ranging conversation.

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser In a way, all story is all about striving for Utopia…and the obstacles to that goal… #feministsf

@knownforms: RT @kelleyeskridge: Don’t miss currently-in-progress #feministsfchat with the fabulous Nicola Griffith! Great and wide-ranging conversation.

@traciewelser: @nicolaz can you comment for a moment about writing memoir, re: “And Now…”? #feministSF

@nicolaz: …and the settling for just a bit less and getting okay with that. #feministsf

@thefuturefire: RT @nicolaz: .@thefuturefire You have my promise: that will never change. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz utopia as process, rather than destination. πŸ™‚#feministSF

@patriciasbowne: Your essay describes constructing utopia like a thought experiment. Yet joy of living in one cd be not needing 2 think that way. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser ANWAGTHAP took me 4 months to put together, soup to nuts. I wrote in a blaze, a haze… #feministsf

@patriciasbowne: so does saying utopia a process really reflect the writers’ interests rather than what wd actually make utopia pleasant? #feministsf

@Justdar826: @nicolaz #feministsfOK I really think I’m too old for the pitch of the fan girl squeal that that statement just evoked πŸ˜‰

@Rudibrarian: This!! How Utopia has changed since Wanderground! RT @traciewelser: @nicolaz utopia as process, rather than destination. πŸ™‚#feministSF

@nicolaz: …ANWAGTHAP was a favour to a friend: a ‘my dad has a barn!’ kind of publishing experiment. One day I hope to republish it. #feministsf

@nicolaz: Because there were only 450 copies made of ANWAGTHAP. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@Justdar826 Never too old πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@traciewelser: @patriciasbowne process means utopia is complex and no one gets exactly what they want, but striving makes it valuable. #feministSF

@Rudibrarian: .@nicolaz How would you feel about a Skype chat if I pulled together a Slow River re-read book chat? #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser Absolutely. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz I had no idea, wow. #feministSF

@patriciasbowne: @traciewelser But that’s only utopia if you like striving for a utopia. Not so many people like that. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@Rudibrarian Great! But it would depend on timing. The next three months = v. busy for me. #feministsf

@jennifer_durham: @nicolaz In a way life is like that (story) too? Striving for utopia? and being okay with settling for less? #feministsf

@traciewelser: @patriciasbowne when the striving stops, stagnation/repression/dystopia sets in. Utopia means “no place,” remember? πŸ™‚ #feministSF

@nicolaz: .@patriciasbowne I *hate* striving! I’m a lazy writer. Much prefer sitting around eating bonbons. #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@jennifer_durham Yep, but less emphasis on ‘striving’ πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: .@nicolaz Maybe in theAugust doldrums? What do you think #feministsf folks? Slow River re-read, skype chat in August? #feministsf

@traciewelser: @Rudibrarian @nicolaz I like this idea and have thought that a skype/Google hangout #feministSFwould be amazing.

@thefuturefire: @patriciasbowne @traciewelser sure they do! Everyone likes striving and seeing their efforts bear fruit… #FeministSF

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser How about replacing ‘striving’ with ‘ambling towards’? or ‘gambolling towards’ πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@patriciasbowne: @nicolaz Bonbons YES! Love the ambling and gambolling as well. A new genre! #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser @Rudilibrarian But I don’t have video, just audio. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz haha! Shuffling Towards Utopia is gotta be the name of my next something-or-other. #feministSF

@geceosan: RT @nicolaz: .@thefuturefire You have my promise: that will never change. #feministsf

@thefuturefire: @Rudibrarian @nicolaz I’m totally up for it. (Hope to be on vacation in August!) #FeministSF

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser No no no, ‘shuffling’ is *not* a fun verb! #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: what a great #feministsfchat today! Amazing how fast an hour goes by, and how much more it brings up!

@jennifer_durham: @nicolaz “Ambling” might make the world a happier place… :)n #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz Strutting, then. πŸ™‚ #feministSF

@nicolaz: .@Rudibrarian Yep, it’s flashed by. Any last questions? #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@traciewelser Swaggering toward Utopia… It should be an anthology. #feministsf

@Wyld_Dandelyon: @traciewelser I like “Shuffling Towards Utopia”. It has a nice contrast to it. #feministsf

@Rudibrarian: ooh! That’s the one!! RT @nicolaz: .@traciewelser Swaggering toward Utopia… It should be an anthology. #feministsf

@thefuturefire: @patriciasbowne I think of “striving” as anything that takes work: you strive when writing a book, no? And you never *finish*… #FeministSF

@patriciasbowne: @nicolaz The more verbs, the more variety. Now I want to find the perfect verb for each character. Thanks loads! #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz thank you so much for the thoughtful chat today. #feministSF

@nicolaz: .@thefuturefire Oh, I so totally finish my books. And then there’s *drinking* πŸ™‚ #feministsf

@thefuturefire: @patriciasbowne Ò€¦writing (I mean you finish book, but not *writing*). You keep improving as long as you live. And that’s great! #FeministSF

@patriciasbowne: @thefuturefire I do finish. One book at a time. I must have rewards, lots of them and often! #feministsf

@nicolaz: .@patriciasbowne Verbs are the most powerful words in a writer’s warchest. #feministsf

@thefuturefire: @nicolaz 140 chars too little. πŸ™‚ Yes, you finish the book, but you don’t finish being a writer. #FeministSF

@patriciasbowne: @nicolaz Thanks so much for being here! #feministsf

@nicolaz: Okay, people. Thank you, all. It’s now time for me to break for lunch. Go read something splendid! #feministsf

@traciewelser: @nicolaz thanks again! #feministSF

@thefuturefire: @patriciasbowne agreed. Striving toward utopia = making the world better one step at a time. Just never perfect. #FeministSF

@Justdar826: @traciewelser @nicolaz How about ‘Eating Bonbons in Utopia” as a story title? #feministsf

@thefuturefire: @nicolaz Thank you so much. That was a wonderful chat. I’m still buzzing! #FeministSF

@thefuturefire: @patriciasbowne after all, you and I could agree on improving the world in many waysÒ€¦ but we’d *never* agree on a perfect world! #FeministSF

@Justdar826: @thefuturefire @nicolaz it was great fun! Thanks so much #feministsf

@patriciasbowne: @thefuturefire Not so sure- b/c for me a perfect world is often just one that doesn’t force me to think about its imperfections. #feministsf

@patriciasbowne: @patriciasbowne I think lots of my characters are the same. Easy to please, hard to motivate. #feministsf

@thefuturefire: @patriciasbowne Well there you go, for me the perfect world would be one in which we don’t need to kid ourselves. πŸ™‚ #FeministSF

@patriciasbowne: @thefuturefire if you’re not thinking abt something, you don’t need to kid yourself abt it. #feministsf

@traciewelser: @thefuturefire @patriciasbowne as much as I love any discussion of utopia, I’m bowing out. cheers! #feministsf

@patriciasbowne: @thefuturefire besides, we all have to kid ourselves abt *something.* The question is whether we kid ourselves about #feministsf

@patriciasbowne: the criteria by which we decide what to kid ourselves abt. #feministsf

@Wyld_Dandelyon: @nicolaz Thanks for stopping by! #feministsf

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